Ep. 97: Academia’s relationship with industry

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Ep. 97: Academia’s relationship with industry

The Textile Innovation Podcast speaks with Dr Yuly Fuentes-Medel of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology’s Fabric Innovation Hub about how academic collaboration is transforming practices within the fashion industry. 

WTiN: Hi Yuly, you have an impressive CV, could you talk us through your background and what led you to MIT? 

Fuentes-Medel: Thank you so much for the invitation. So my background is I'm a doctorate in neuroscience. So I have dedicated a lot of my life understanding the science of understanding the brain. And back, then, 1012 years ago, I was deciding what to do and how science can change industries and how science really changed and transform our society. So I came to study to MIT economics of innovation. So I have a background in understanding how the region's form industry a and with that background, the accident happened to really start working and understanding the fashion industry. My understanding of technological adaptation, which is people adopting technologies for the good or their life, a guide me to find the fashion industry and industry that has been running for about hundreds and years, a and thinking, Okay, how an industry that is. So creative, is going to adopt technologies that could transform the way they make things. That was about 10 years ago, and here, we are still working. MIT call me back a couple of years ago with the idea that they wanted to think and understand how the institute can be in service to the textile industry. So now I'm the primary programme director of something called the climate grand challenges, we are dedicating a lot of our research in service of the climate. And of course, there is a huge correlation between fashion and climate, because about 10% of the emissions comes from our industry. So that's who I am. And interesting background for the industry. I'm not the textile trained person, but I'm a biochemist too. So I speak material science, I speak policy, I speak business, and I speak research. So it's a good background.  

WTiN: Amazing. And you've probably covered this, but where do your passions lie as a scientist? And how do you feel the relationship between academia and industry work together? 

Fuentes-Medel: I think, particularly for the fashion industry, when I started to work and explore how the industry will be transformed with technology, I realised that there is a point of creativity that is important, both for science and for design, and for a fashion. So fashion designer is thinking and as an output of a good garment that is going to change people identity and life. But science is also thinking about that societal change. Like if you invent on iPhone, basically, you're transforming the way people communicate among each other. So for me, the academic mindset is at the beginning of the conversation of transformation that needs to happen in a safe space, so that academic institutions can be that space for people that is really trying to understand their own industry. 

WTiN: And how did you get involved with MIT's fabric innovation hub? And could you detail your role in in that as well as your role within the climate Grand Challenge?  

Fuentes-Medel: Yeah, of course. So when MIT called me back to rethink how are we working with the fashion industry and textile industry as a whole, I created the fabric innovation have strategy. So I supported the institute to have annalistic view in how to interact with the industry. We did a workshop back in the day to really bring in the problems of the industry to the Institute, and be really practical to understand that MIT is not going to create a new textile department. But in in country, we can really have an a listicle view of what the industry needs to be transform. So the fabric innovation hub was a response to the industry's problems. And it's a response really tactical in thinking, well, what are going to be the materials of the future, we're going to be the new manufacturing processes that the industry needs to be decarbonize or the pollutes the process. Where are the consumer behaviours that we need in order for the new mindset of purchasing to stewardship we require on the minds of people? What are the metrics that we need to understand in order to really understand okay, if you are going to decarbonize the industry, or you're going to work with biodiversity, what is the baseline that you need to have and how do you measure For that, that is meaningful, both for the industry and also for the consumer. So really great in analytical view, that support the industry in the several problems that they will have in order to transform. 

WTiN: That's really interesting. Could you tell me, who was involved with the fabric Innovation Hub, and which departments of the university get involved in how they do that. 

Fuentes-Medel: So because of our innovation habits, analytical view, we get a we have a group of professors that were across Institute. So we have professors, for example, in the material departments. In mechanical engineering department, we have professors that work in the business school, they're thinking more about the business case of the industry. We have professors in the neuroscience department that are thinking about the consumer behaviour. MIT has one of the oldest manufacturing departments in the country in United States. So we also have people who works in the magazine in the manufacturing department, their chemical engineer is really important because you need to think about the chemistry of the brain of the textile industry. So we are really holistically view, we also have people from the Media Lab that is doing on thinking about the futuristic view of the industry. So it's all about kind of thinking this ecosystem of professors does have ideas about the industry and how all those superpowers I call can work together in synchrony to support the industry. 

WTiN: That's a really interesting, that's incredible that everybody gets involved. And do you have any external partnerships? And if so, how do you work with them? 

Fuentes-Medel: At the moment, we don't have external partnerships, the Institute in itself is really well connected with the with the industry across so we have experience working with different sectors, like the car industry, a biotech and robotics industry. So we are pretty much built in a model that the industry problems are our problems to solve. But at the same time, there is research that could create the future of those industries. So there is the climate, a consortium that bring companies to start thinking about the scope, emissions, and kind of thinking more about, okay, how different sectors are solving this. So then the fashion industry is one more industry there. We have partnerships across a nonprofit. So MIT has several partnerships with nonprofits. We also have partnerships with universities. So for example, in the fashion sector, we have a partnership with a fit, which is a Fashion Institute of Technology in New York, we were trying to build a workshop on curriculum for the future designer that need an engineers there needs to be a hybrid thinker. So the idea that you start thinking about the future of this industry has to start with that double mindset. So how do we create and give back to the rest of the universities? A programme and a plan where they can collaborate? 

WTiN: That sounds fantastic. And I've read a lot on the fabric Innovation Hub, that there's a saying that the future of Textiles is collaboration. What does this mean to you? 

Fuentes-Medel: I think, essentially, collaboration is something that will transform a lot of industries. We are living in a moment where many of the industries has been digitise, we're living in a moment where we're finding problems are not only about the industry, but a listicle to the world. So that style kind of shifting the paradigm of this solo version, I, a company needs to be doing all of these things by myself. Or can we create a space of pre competitive collaboration that will allow all together to learn from the new big challenge, and then work essentially in solving it together? So collaboration will give you a scale up for efficiencies of scale, like, in a simple project, if you want to invest in decarbonization in certain parts of the supply chain, why don't you do it together, it will be cheaper for the companies to pay together programmes that are going to allow them to do it. That's a financial collaboration. But also there is a learning process of how do you really implement the strategies in the company, but it doesn't have to be by yourself. It can be in collaborations because different companies have different strategies, but they can complement each other in the learning of how do you really do it. And fashion has some of those organisations and I think, I think they're starting to learn that in collaboration is where they're gonna gain faster. The meaning of change in the industry. 

WTiN: That makes complete sense and kind Have going off that point. And why is it important for the wider Textile and Fashion Industry to look towards research projects such as those undertaken at MIT? 

Fuentes-Medel: Yeah, that's that's a great point. I think we our industry, it's an industry that is it has the sent to one immediate results. Right. So the technologies and innovations that are happening at the product level, which is the next collection that is coming out from the in the retail or in the E commerce, it's an industry that requires an immediate response. The next caller is an innovation in a way you need to kind of understand what is going to be the chemistry for the next rep in the collection. So with that frequency of needs of innovation, research has a different pace. Research takes years to be at the level of commercialization. So nevertheless, research is needed in order to transform practices at the manufacturing level, at the business level at the user experience. So research can give you a long term, a version of what could happen if you do something. And here's something that the industry needs to start learning because they cannot be trying to solve the problems with the same solution. So that immediate and short term, they need to start thinking holistically about what do we want the fashion industry to be? And research gives you that possibility. 

WTiN: Amazing. And looking at the fashion and the textile industry. In your opinion, what do you think are the biggest challenges facing them at the moment? Is it sustainability, adopting AI and other technologies? Looking at end of life solutions, for example? 

Fuentes-Medel: It's not as it's not a one silver bullet, if you will have a magic one. And you will say what are the things I want to change, depending of the sector and the and the functionalities of these garments, you're trying to find different things, because you're also serving different consumers. So first, it depends on who you're serving. Second, it depends of the respect that people will have for technologies that will enable them to have a better type of product. Sustainability cannot happen without technology, it's imperative that we put technology at the service of sustainability. And understanding that as a principle for what can change and sustainability is really important for all the companies. Unfortunately, companies not always have the research or technology budget. So it comes as a as a project rather than a part of the core strategy of the companies to really invest in the future of the industry. So it's a cost that the industry needs to start learning how to learn if the if we really want to change and move the needle in what is going to be the transformation of the industry. The second thing is you're asking me about climate AI. I don't see it that way. I think, in general, when you want to integrate technologies, you want to have an end goal. So if the industry end goal is to decarbonize the industry, because we are part of a big equation for global change, well, AI could enable it, get a green chemistry could enable it. New things of a robotics can enable it, but you don't integrate technologies for the heck of having a cool technology. You integrate technology in an industry because you know, what is the angle? So if the organization's angle, you need to understand which are the technology, you want to integrate it via diversities angle, well, then you need to go back to the biology and really understand what are the biological cycles that are we going to integrate this industry in a way that we can participate. So if a garment needs to go after and be the fermenter of your garden, you need to understand the whole cycle of how that will happen. If you want to activate regenerative agriculture, you need to understand the whole cycle of that. So there is a lot of learning curves for industry to really think how technology change what is going to be the future of this industry. But it's also an exciting path. Because what we think about the industry today could be completely different in the future if you integrate this mindset at the company level. 

WTiN: Going off that do you think that there's any ways in which academia, academia and researchers could incentivize the industry to move towards a greener practices? 

Fuentes-Medel: Absolutely. I think we in the in the academics, space, not only MIT, but any university has really taught entered people thinking, without the commercial mindset, they are not there in the service to sell a product. They are there in the service to society to think what will be a better industry for products that, let's face it, we're not going to go naked in the next century. So this industry in itself is a necessity same as is food, same as is transportation, we need these things as an human necessity. So the academic space is a safe space to really ask the hard questions, and also to allow failures, because not every research projects is your works. And the tolerance for failure is so important for any industry to see as transformation. And also, who is architecting, the future of any industry, which is an academic institution, can really put their scenarios of how do you really think about the industry for the good of the society. And even though a garment can mean nothing to someone, it could mean a whole change of identity for somebody else. And that's a responsible decision for anyone who's working in this industry to take. So it's a safe space and also a space of dream. What is the future for the industry? 

WTiN: That sounds great, thank you. And I know kind of kind of that as well that you've spoken about decarbonisation in the industry in the past? Please, can you tell me what MIT is doing in this regard? 

Fuentes-Medel: Yeah, so a couple of it's been announced that recently, we we are in a major transformation as an institution, one of the projects is going to be the MIT climate project. And under that umbrella, we're really looking under the hood of every single research that's going on in the institute, and understand how those research lines can build up in solutions for the climate change, like professors of not only thinking about the next new innovation, but in context of decarbonisation. So we have lounge missions that are going to be dedicated for particular spaces in climate and how you can attend, mediating creating a new future, understanding adaptation of CDs, in a way that the research can help the decarbonisation of the process of these industries. So when you start thinking about the decarbonisation of cement, for example, or the construction industry, is so similar to what is going to happen in the decarbonization of fashion. And there are similarities across sectors that could help our industry, but the incidence of the haves experience working with different industries. So there is a little bit of cross pollination of the learnings from previous from other industries that the incidents can really bring back to the industry, because we have experienced with other industries. 

WTiN: I know there's a lot of talk at the moment in industry, especially fashion about end of life practices. And a lot of people are looking at recycling and biodegradability. And could you give me some pros and cons for each one for recyclability, and biodegradability. 

Fuentes-Medel: That will be a podcast for two hours. If I can summarise what you're asking me here. With my mindset of material science, first of all, I don't like to think about the end of life. I like to think about the life of the product. Right? And when you start thinking about the life of the product, you need to start thinking thinking across the life of the product and the use of that drug from the from from the moment that is ideated to the moment that is in use with any with a consumer, you have a lot of opportunities to really incentivize pieces of the supply chain to be actors and enablers of decarbonisation in the end of life part which is okay now I'm done with my product or I don't want to use it you really need to think about the length of use of the products, the products that you're going to use for years, but their products that you probably are gonna need to change because either you change size there are many reasons why you will change a product right. viser variability and recyclability are heavily depend in two things. One, is the infrastructure around you to really be an actor of biodegradability. So are there industrial A compost systems around in your city? Or are you been able to have a clear system where you are going to bring the product and that product is going to be either recycled or biodegrade? There is an infrastructure that has to exist around those two aspects of the product that make the person decide, okay, what will be the best, let me give you an example, is completely different to think about a ski jacket that probably couldn't last years, and it can be on by many people, because those products last a long time. Yeah. And you might want to design and create for durability, and not even recycle the product, because that durability will allow you to have many purchases and many transactions in one product. So recycling and biodegradability, there became irrelevant, because you want to extend the life of that product. Now, you will argue with me, well, usually after 100 years, that product, my end, I need an end of life, well, then you have systems in place in infrastructure that you can either recycle and by the great nature has given us materials that only can biodegrade or only can be recycled. So they the learning and understanding the material science of that is really critical for people to design products, the performance of materials that are going to buy the grid, by nature, because there are going to be click and flip by enzymes, which is via the relation process, really, at the microscopic level, give you different tunability of the performance of a material. So what do you design for? And how do you integrate that part of the cycle of the life of the product is really critical to understand what is the use case? Who is thinking about where do you are going to use it? Yeah. And how that is going to be managed. Because if manage wrong, we end up with a problem, which is all those textiles and in a landfill without a really real plan. So I hope that answered your recycling biodegradable question.  

WTiN: Yeah, there's actually a lot to think about there. Really interesting. To think about how brands can actually create the products and what they're putting in there. And considering the whole, the whole life support before they get started. Now, that's a lot, a lot to think about on that one. So kind of going off that, could you tell me? Have you worked with any companies and brands in the past? And who were they and what did you do with them? 

Fuentes-Medel: Well, I'm currently working in a project that is called the footwear collective. And it's a break that's been out from MIT to support the footwear industry. So shoes have been neglected for a lot of years. Yeah, how do we think about the accountability with missions. And shoes is a really complex product. So in itself, a shoe is our basic form of transport, a transportation, but it's also a system of many parts and many materials. So we're currently working with the food work companies. Sorry, it's a call here that Oh, no. Maybe I should start over for your recording. Show if you want to. Yeah. Yeah, so I didn't want to get caught in that fun. So currently, I'm working with footwear companies. So in a project that got spun out from the MIT, which is called the footwear collective, I wrote a report, that is called the footwear manifesto, which was a we work with the footwear industry to really think a pathway of circularity for the future of this industry. And to my surprise, shoes have been neglected of this conversation, because, of course, are complex products, there are parts, there are many materials, and it's our way more integrated system that needs to be decoded there. So I'm working in the footwork collective under a nonprofit called or DNA, working with them to really understand the pre competitive space and that collaboration angle that will allow them to really kind of move forward in a systemic way. A, an industry has big challenges, because you don't want to convert fashion company into a waste company. Right, because now we are going to integrate new suppliers. I call them the new kids of the blog in a way that they need to interact with this industry thinking in the product as a whole life. So we need to start kind of building this collaboration for unusual suspects. in different cities in different contexts in different user cases. So it's, for me is what it needs to happen. The industry needs to participate in these conversations. So I'm really passionate about having the companies learn and find a safe space to really say, Well, this has worked, this has not worked, and how do we fix it together? 

WTiN: Now, that's really interesting. And in terms of footwear, I’ve actually seen quite a few things coming through about new product innovation. So it does seem like a really exciting area of research at the moment. So I'm very excited to see what comes from what you're doing there. So the scope and the offering of MIT's fabric Innovation Hub is vast, from education, and invention to workshops and networking. And can you explain some of the core offerings more detail into who they benefit.  

Fuentes-Medel: So we have three areas as you describe education is because we are a university. So we need to think about the workforce of the future. And we need to inspire our engineers to think about this industry as a place for work. I think if this so my call to action for companies is a engineers are not thinking in fashion is my next job position. But if we will have more of them thinking about the system, about the mechanics about the future, I think this industry, we really benefit a lot in having them integrated. And I can tell you from our experience working with fit, that the combination of designer and engineer is really powerful for any given company. Invention is well, professors are doing projects that are sometimes not even related to fashion industry, but will be fundamental for what the fashion industry can do. So let me give you an example. And the consumer behaviour, we have experienced thinking about consumer behaviour rules in many other industry, but the fashion industry hasn't participate in that. So call to action to particular projects, or companies, or a group of companies is really important to the fabric innovation. And then the convening power, as I explained to you academia is a convening power, we are not in the business to sell products. So bringing in for an annual summit the industry with a dedicated topic mean, normally what has happened is that the industry can come to us and say, Hey, usually our next challenge is this, can we discuss it in MIT with faculty and professors that are kind of thinking futuristically, about what will be the solution and the delta of that change. And problem, sustainability has been a big topic in the past, we had the summit with the shoe industry. So I'm really looking forward for what the industry needs now. Because we need to dedicate that summits to one of the problems so and you know, you and I know there are many really interesting and far more practical perspective.  

WTiN: Could you tell me how the hub secures funds and investment and from where from? So again, so And from a more practical perspective, please, could you tell me how the hub secures funds and investments? 

Fuentes-Medel: Yeah, so we are funded by baseline in existence by the Institute. But when companies want to come to work with the fabric Innovation Hub, they we built up fee. So there's something it's called, we work with sponsor projects, so companies will sponsor projects and research a for particular interests. And we also have donation system, so the companies can give a gift. So then we can create programmes for our students in a way that a we can have career development for them, we can inspire them with the industry, there is a current project that needs funding right now, which is the students are developing an insight store where they circulate in their own clothing, the infinite dread project, because they want to understand how do you make people to really change clothing. So how the second life they call it is happens. And we have to remember that MIT is, even though it's a it's a top university, sometimes the students need that winter jacket, and they don't really come from states are places in the world that they have experienced winter. So then if we can exchange that you don't really need to buy more product, but you can really learn the rules of exchange in clothing. So those are the type of initiatives that the students are really passionate about it. And those needs a mentors and sponsors for being a fiction. 

WTiN: That's really exciting. And in the future, how would you like to see the hub develop? 

Fuentes-Medel: I think we can have the opportunity to work together with the industry to shape what is the future of the industry. I think we have been lucky that the industry has been in contact with us constantly. So we can learn from each other professors enjoys tremendously the interaction with industry, because they don't like to do research for the heck of research. They like to do research for something to solve for. So I think the invitation is to bring your problems because MIT is full of solvers, and people who will really be happy to dig in into that problem. 

WTiN: Okay, and you've actually already answered my final question. But are there any future projects apart from the footwear one that you were particularly excited about? 

Fuentes-Medel: I think what I would love to see here, it's an interaction that create new technologies for the industry and not technologies that are going to make it more complicated, but technologies that help the to solve the big problems of the industry. So they dependency of industry really speaking to us and talking to us about their challenges is critical for us to really develop the right technologies. So it's always an open forum is a one door entrance, you can reach out to the 5g innovation have an if, if they insist doesn't have it, we're super open to collaborate with many other universities and centres. So is an open model for really customise what can be the next thing for the industry. 

WTiN: That's great. That sounds really exciting. Thank you for answering all of my questions today. It's amazing to hear what's happening at MIT and we're super excited to see what's going to come come up at all.