Traceability in textiles: From design to disposal

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Traceability in textiles: From design to disposal

Traceability is no longer a “nice-to-have” but a strategic necessity for textile supply chains, especially when addressing pre-consumer and post-industrial waste. This webinar brings together industry leaders to explore how innovative technologies are enabling traceability from material sourcing to end-of-life.

Madelaine Thomas
Hello and welcome to today's webinar, traceability in textiles, from design to disposal, sponsored by Interloop. So this webinar will bring together industry leaders to explore how innovative technologies are enabling traceability from material sourcing to end of life. So we can expect a deep dive into interlude, traceability systems and waste management initiatives, along with insights into reverse resources platform connecting recyclers, suppliers and brands. Our panelists today are Fauz ul Azeem, head of sustainability and chemical management from Interloop Limited. He brings over 25 years of experience in the textile and chemical sectors, and also with us, we have Nin Castle, co founder of Reverse Resources, who brings extensive experience, almost 20 years in fact, in designing solutions for pre consumer and post industrial textile waste. So just a little housekeeping before we begin the discussion. If you do have any questions during then please type them into the Q and A question provided in Q and A box provided in your zoom control panel, and we'll respond to those at the end of the presentation. So thank you. So on to our questions. So Fauz, we'll start with you. Could you, I guess, in setting the landscape, provide an overview of the current decarbonisation landscape for suppliers, and how does traceability fit into this? How does traceability contribute to these efforts?

Fauz ul Azeem
Okay, thank you. Thank you very much. And I think it's a great to discuss a very exciting and even challenging topic of traceability in textiles. So when we talk about the decarbonization landscape, I think it has been a it's changing significantly in the recent years, specifically after the implementation of the ESG regulatory frameworks, specifically in the EU so these ESG regulations, which includes reporting regulations like CSRD, either it's about the CS Triple D that ensures carbon footprint assessment in the value chain, or maybe if it's regulations of the carbon tariffs like see them so all these regulatory frameworks that read redefining The decarbon decarbonization pathway, specifically in the textile sector. So I think in the first stage, these regulations are impacting brands at first, because the brands who are directly working in the EU market, and definitely after some time, they will come towards the manufacturers, and definitely manufacturers, they get get impacted by these regulations after after a few years. So decarbonization have a multiple layers of complexity. So when we talk about some low hanging fruits, definitely the companies, the bigger companies, like interloop, they already have a very, very very aggressive strategic plans to decarbonize their manufacturing facilities. So there are some low hanging fruits on which the companies they are working right now. When we talk about the low hanging fruit, it's just we would talk about the implementing the efficiency improvement initiatives, or maybe the installation of the renewable energy like the solar installations. But still, there are lot, a lot of high tech initiatives that very innovative technologies that need a very high fundings or a very high financial investments on that. So decarbonization efforts remain self funded at this moment. So there is no external financial sports available for the companies right now. So they are, they are now. They are not freely available for us, so most of the companies, they are funding their their own initiatives. The companies like interloop, we are aggressive on setting the targets like we already have been engaged in the science based target pledges. We we are doing lot, many initiatives, starting from the green LEED certified facilities, moving towards the more sustainable fuels, more renewable fuels, and then the bigger challenges include supply chain, traceability, scope, three emissions and scaling high tech impactful decarbonization efforts. Still, these are areas which are still we need to work on. So high tech decarbonation projects like the carbon capturing or fixation and alternate fuel switching. So it's more cost, costly things that the companies they have to work out. And still, I think the bigger question is that who will pay or who will invest on these bigger technologies, and when we talk about the traceability, so traceability is definitely, it's a foundational step for the decarbonization. So this is a very basic thing, that until we cannot measure it, we cannot reduce it. So until, unless we don't have a complete traceable of our supply chain, we cannot plan or strategize our decarbonization efforts. So under the current framework of decarbonization, the traceability and the transparency, I believe it's the biggest thing that we need to sort and I think it's more complex even when we talk about the whole supply chain, maybe the bigger manufacturers or the brands, they can easily manage within their domain. But when we move towards the values chain, maybe it's upstream supply chain, or down to stream supply chain, the stress ability becomes more complex. And this is, this is the, I think, area where we need to work more aggressively.

Madelaine Thomas
And do you think for those other areas of the supply chain that you mentioned for us, that is, is that you know that that access to funding? Is that a is that a big problem you think for investment into decarbonization? Is that the key barrier you think for decarbonization?

Fauz ul Azeem
Yeah, definitely, because maybe the biggest thing is to to document the whole supply chain. So maybe the bigger companies, they do have the resources, they do have the infrastructure that they can document their own emission framework. But definitely, when we move into maybe less mature supply chain there, we need a very huge efforts to measure the carbon footprints. And definitely once, once we have a good measurement of the whole carbon footprint and supply chain, then we can make a better strategies to reduce those carbon emissions.

Madelaine Thomas
Thanks for and then, if we just, we just come to you now based on your experience, you know, working across Asia, India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, for example, how prepared our manufacturers and recyclers to adopt the traceability system that Fauz briefly mentioned.

Nin Castle
I think everybody wants traceability. They would like to have the results and have the data and have the insight it's actually gathering that data is the is the more challenging part of it, when you've got it, it's a big benefit. But setting up systems to collect the needed data is the is the challenge. I mean, we work very specifically with circular value chains, so waste and what happens to that. So we're quite a unique company in a way, in terms of traceability, which is one area in which we work. I think what was, I wonder, if you agree with me here, because you've set up such really good traceability systems internally that was directed by yourselves, but I know that for other manufacturers, it's sometimes deemed as just a reporting exercise, something you have to do that doesn't really add a huge amount to your business case, apart from keeping your clients happy, you could say what we've tried to do is reverse resources, because we are at the beginning of these circular value chains. Is rather than after this sort of supply chain being established and coming in with a traceability platform, we're trying to build tools that enable people to do better business within within the topic of waste management and recycling, and then the byproduct of people using a good talk that saves them money, saves them time, or is bring some sort of efficiency, or the good marketing and promotion, or it's good networking, whatever is the reason easy reporting and so on, whatever is the reason they're on there. They're on there because it helps them. And then the byproduct of that is, oh, here is all the data that I need to also provide in terms of traceability. So, yeah, it's traceability, but it's just reporting is always going to be a challenge, and then it's also a challenge of, is that good data or not? You know, is it well reported? Yeah, Fauz, what's your thoughts about do you agree with that statement or. Well,

Fauz ul Azeem
I'm interested, yeah, yeah, I think I didn't. Then you, you're, you're absolutely right. So because everything, when, when we are talking about the new regulatory frameworks, definitely it need a very, very, very transparent reporting, as well as they need different information. It's, it's, maybe we are talking about the social compliance, we are talking about the environmental data, and we are talking about the the origin of the materials from, where they are coming from. So all these information, definitely, they need a very, very well structured traceability mechanism, and that mechanism which can be translated for every stakeholder. So maybe it's even it's more complex when we are talking about that, maybe one platform or one set of information similar and for for every stakeholders, every stakeholders can understand those informations, and then they can share those information within within the value chain. So definitely traceability is the complex thing. And definitely it's it's a mandatory thing in in the new, new framework of regulations,

Madelaine Thomas
and then both mentioned in the in the previous question, just just briefly, around regulations. How do you feel regulations are impacting this, this move towards traceability and and, you know, with the, with what you said earlier, about some people just kind of doing it to, you know, to tick that box. Are we looking to just kind of tick a box in terms of regulations? You feel,

Nin Castle
um, I think that. I think traceability and the data and the insights are very useful because they allow you to build robust supply chains. They allow you to understand where you should be acting, or what is working well, what is not working well, where do you need to improve? So the data you get from the traceability, I think, is is always beneficial, whether that's for a manufacturer, for a brand in the supply chain, the regulations, of course, are are really good push towards that, because, as far as mentioned, you need that information to understand where you need To accept set up initiatives for decarbonization or circularity, and also then measure, was that successful? Did that have the right impact? Because if you could be working on an incorrect assumption, where you think this sounds great, and you're really going to be doing something very beneficial, but it might not actually be having that benefit that you first that you first thought so, data is really vital for for for for this, I think, in terms of circular value change, which is kind of where we sit, and the waste management, the new regulations coming in through EU, but also beginning to emerge now In California, in the States, and also in in other countries, in Japan, and the beginning to bubble up now in many different regions or parts of the world. These are having a or have the potential to have a really good impact on this transition to more circular supply chains, and yeah, you need to do the reporting. You need the data, and therefore the traceability becomes, becomes key to that.

Madelaine Thomas
Thanks. Fauz, could you share some insights into Interloop's initiatives in material and waste traceability and how brand partnerships are kind of contributing to the scalability of this.

Fauz ul Azeem
Yeah, okay, so when you talk about the interloop, so we in interloop, we are working with the ESG long term strategies Since 2015 so when we talk about the based initiatives, we have a waste initiatives in three basic categories. So first is the waste reduction. So at first point, we try to minimize the production of the waste as much as possible. So we do have a lot many initiatives on waste reduction. The second category is about the waste recycling. So whatever waste which is integral, we cannot avoid that the generation of that waste. Then we prefer to move towards recycling options. And the third is to use of the alternate materials. Maybe the biggest example is the use of some alternate fibers, specifically the agro fiber from the agro wastes. So in the first, first category when we talk about the waste reduction. So we already have a couple of initiatives in which, on reduc reduction side, we have the biggest initiative, like sampling. So. So when, when we are initiating the, the initial concept of the product. So we definitely, we design a sample, so we have a capacity, a very high tech softwares in which we make the digital samples rather than the physical samples. So the physical sample itself, because what to just finalize the the sample we need to when we need to design a lot many, we need to produce lot, many samples for for the final verification from the customers. So these digital sampling concept is definitely a base reduction concept in which we are using digital images, very high, high definition images, and presenting to the customers. And on the basis of those visual images they they are, they are able to finalize the basic requirements of that sample. So this is, this is the reduction category. The second is the waste recycling. So the biggest sector, the product sector, that is the hosiery manufacturing for the interloop so in which we have a project in which we recycle the shredded socks based and it's about 850 tons of waste we are recycling annually, and that waste is being recycled, converted into the yarn again, and that yarn is being used in in our grocery socks manufacturing, and about 50% of our clip yarn waste is being used From the recycled fiber. So similarly, when we talk about the third level of base recycling category, that is about the adding value, but segregation. So the more categories we are segregating, the more value we are adding to the base. So if we are segregating based by brand, even by the color or the composition. So it's it's what we are willing adding value to the waste. So right now, we are collaborating with reverse resource, and we had just initiated a pilot in which we have planned to segregate our waste and then create a visibility of the waste to the partners of the value chain, who can use them with a better value framework. The third thing is the material innovation, in which we are using the agro waste, and we have a project of loom shake, in which we are using the banana stem waste, converting into the banana fiber, and then using that fiber blended with the cotton, and then using as a as a basic raw material. So this this project, is also helping us to use the waste into our final products. So these are some key initiatives which we are taking account when we are strategizing our waste strategy.

Madelaine Thomas
And in in that when you were speaking about the the waste value chains, how local are those supply chain those value chains that you've developed? I

Nin Castle
yeah, sorry,

Madelaine Thomas
sorry, too far.

Fauz ul Azeem
Sorry, please, please repeat. I just keep your

Madelaine Thomas
those waste value chains that you've developed. How localized are they?

Fauz ul Azeem
So it's, I think it's a completely localized so we are also prepping to localize our waste handling, because it definitely reduces the emission impact. So whatever we waste, we are generating, we are we are recycling it to our local based handlers and waste recyclers. And then definitely we are using that back into our supply chain. So definitely, it's, it's the project I explained with you, the 850 tons of waste we are recycling per year. That's, it's a completely through a local vendors.

Madelaine Thomas
Okay, that's interesting and and also how, just going back to one of your earlier points, when you were discussing reduction, and how kind of important has it been for interleague to be open to digital transformation and digital techniques, you know, when you talked about sampling and when we talk about traceability, you know, More generally, what, what has been the role of digitalization in that,

Fauz ul Azeem
I think again, when, when we are talking about the digital sampling, so it's, I think it's a very good way to reduce our not only the carbon footprint, but maybe the footprints of the waste, maybe water. After conservation, we are working with that. We are saving the chemicals with that. So it has a huge impact across all the main pillars of the environmental ESG, so digitalization, I think it's, it's ultimate answer to lot many conservation activities that we are planning under the ESG. So it not only addresses the environmental side, it also addresses the social side as well. So specifically, when we are talking about the digital sampling in interloop, so we are engaged with the top brands as well. So they are also giving a very positive feedback on this initiative, in which, definitely there is no interventions from from the resource conservation side. So we are, we are more focused on the digitalization, wherever it's possible in the complete value chain. 

Madelaine Thomas
Interesting. And then, if we've come to you now, could you elaborate on the collaboration you have with interloop and the role of technology providers like yourselves in connecting recyclers, suppliers and brands?

Nin Castle
Yes. So I think, following on from your point about localization, the Pakistan has got a highly active recycling industry, which is a huge benefit, actually, to the sector. At the moment, because of other countries, you they don't have that level of recycling locally. Partly, this is because of the high cotton content. It's a cotton rich kind of, you know, cotton growing country, a lot of spinning. So this is typically in this kind of landscape, you you see a more sort of mechanical recycling options for cotton and cotton rich textiles. So the industry is there. There's a lot of there's a lot going on, you know, and also with the waste management, there's always, there's a well established waste handling network sitting around the factories who are producing the our our clothes that we wear every day. What's happened in the past is waste management has kind of been kind of an invisible side partner. It's been the responsibility of the factories to solve, sort out the waste, get rid of it, and that's that. But now, when we are focusing more on the circular value chains, there's an increase in interest and demand for recycled fibers. There's legislation coming through that is going to be in the EU potentially mandating for recycled content. Then suddenly, this topic of waste, we need to start thinking it actually as a secondary raw material and not as waste. And so within this it's a kind of like a shift, or sort of a perspective change that the industry needs to, needs to have, and companies, I interlude, that are doing a lot already in terms of production and have very good practices, it's still really challenging for them to understand what is happening outside in this In this industry and waste handling industries in or sectors in any industry do not have the best replication in terms of traceability, high level of social compliance, and, you know, a good standards. That's just worldwide, you know, issue that everybody has. So what we what we do is we come in and we work to actually sort of formalize and help bring up this waste handling sort of sector so it can become a more formal part of the supply chain, and allows companies like interlude to interact more effectively with the recyclers and bring, hopefully bring that back into recycled yarns. And our tool really is a is a kind of a matchmaker, a networking platform. And it also allows for, you know, companies like interloop to then report back to the brand so they can say, hey, you've produced this much socks or this much products with us in the past month or quarter or six months X amount of waste was generated as a byproduct of this processes. And we set, we recycled, you know, 50% within our own recycling process, and got it back, and we the other 50% was traced to these different three recycling recyclers. This is kind of where we where we operate, and it's kind of like this. Often these systems are already established, but it's all happening kind of in the dark, and nobody knows what's happening where. So it's really important to kind of shine light, I suppose. And some of. Really good practices that are going on in the industry that people, and often brands are quite unaware of. We have worked with brands, for example, that have started using the platform, and they suddenly see, hang on a second, I had, like, 300 tons of my waste went to this recycler in the past. You know, a couple of months I should be Can I look into what kind of recycled products they create. Is there any opportunity to to bring those back? We've had example of brands doing this and saying, to recycle. Look, you know, we could actually use some of the yarns you're creating. Could you improve this? This, this in terms of your sort of social and compliance, and we could actually start, start working with you. So it's as a kind of, yeah, a visualization, I suppose, to allow people to be more knowledgeable of what's

Madelaine Thomas
going on. Yeah. I really like the idea there around, you know, rethinking worst into being a kind of secondary raw material. I think that's a really nice way of putting it. Interleaf. We'll come back to you Fauci your partnership with reverse resources on waste traceability. It adds an additional layer to your waste management efforts. And can you share how this aligns with your broader sustainability goals as a company?

Fauz ul Azeem
Okay? So in interloop, after every five years, we set our long term goals. So when we are talking about the environmental side, we we have a goals on emissions. We have a goal on water stewardship. We We are planning for, for for the waste, for the sustainable materials, as well as the chemical compliance. So as far as our latest five years plan, we have a commitment to divert 100% of our waste from the landfill. So when we talk about the 100% diversion of the waste from the landfill, so it's a it's a complex phenomena, and the purpose is that whatever waste we are generating within the inter loop, it's not going into the landfill at first go. So I think there are, there are a lot, many types of waste we are generating. We do understand that they are either they are reused, upcycled or recycled. But definitely when, when we need to claim that 100% is diverted from the landfill, we need a very robust structure of tracking and tracing that waste through the supply chain, because when it's going out of our facilities, until, unless, we don't have a robust mechanism to trace the whole supply chain. We cannot be sure that no waste is going into the landfill. So I think here comes the solution, which reverse resource, also providing the digital solution in which each and every partner of the supply chain, they are connected through this digital tool. So either it's a waste handler, either it's a waste recyclers, back to the spinning mills, or even the manufacturers, definitely and the brands, they also have the visibility of the whole system. If they are the they also have the presence on the reverse resource tool. So the basic mechanism is to create a complete transparency for all the stakeholders, in which they can understand that what is the origin of this waste? Who are the partners? What are their compliance level? Maybe they can understand their emission impacts, and ultimately, they have a confidence when they are claiming on their final product that they they are using the recycled materials. So I think it's also important for the brands as well, because when they need to claim on their product, and under the regulatory frameworks, a very strict regulatory frameworks of the claims. They need a very robust data through which they can make sure that whatever they are claiming on the final product, they have a very documented evidence at the back so it creates transparency, it creates the confidence to the supply chains. And I think this is the reason we select the solution being a more transparent and more robust, and which definitely connecting all the partners in the supply chain that are handling the waste.

Madelaine Thomas
And what would you say if Oza the kind of key things that brands are looking for when it comes to developing new partnerships for pre consumer and post industrial waste.

Fauz ul Azeem
So when we're talking about the pre consumer or post consumer industrial waste, first and foremost, definitely, as I explained earlier. That the first and foremost thing is the transparency to ensure the claims. And you know that in materials, there is no litmus test to check either it's a recycled or it's a version. So the chain of custody thing is the only way to identify that these materials are recycled or not. So I think the most the chain of custody exercise is the high level of precision and transparency that can address this challenge, and also the digital product passport is also defining out the standard requirements about the claims, like they want to understand the origin of that material or other material details in the supply chain. Maybe they need impact data, they need the social compliance, and definitely all these things they are coming together and creating confidence to the brands or even to the final consumer, you know. So brands need more visibility of the quantified impacts to make more better decisions at the design level as as well. So all these things, they are, they they are just aligned with the the solution. We are talking right now in the reverse resource. I don't

Madelaine Thomas
know if you can hear that alarm there. We're having a fire alarm in the studio at the moment. I don't know what's going on, but we'll, we'll carry on for now, since I can't smell any smoke, so and so. Nin, if we come to you because we are running out of time as well, and I do want to try and get through as many audience questions as we can, what global, local and company led initiatives are required to make reverse logistics a success in you know, What is a very fragmented textile and apparel industry? Yeah, industry.

Nin Castle
There's huge opportunity out there now, because before we were really focused on just wool and cotton recycling and maybe some done a mechanical recycling for some kind of polyester nylon, but it wasn't going into too high quality recycle polyester and nylon through that term mechanical process when it comes from textile to the pellet, rather than bottle the recycle bottles the pellet. So we were kind of restricted before in the opportunities to recycle, but we're in a very different situation now. We have a lot of technologies, and continually merging and improved technologies entering the market. So the hope we see the light at the end of the tunnel. And some people, I feel, get a bit sort of, you know, like, where to start, what to do. And actually, it's a it's fairly simple. The biggest challenge we have now is stopping to be a technical one, and it's actually a feedstock supply chain challenge. Because of these recycled onto the market, they're looking to building, or they are building their first plants, but how to access the waste that they need? And the challenge is, is that they need very large volumes of this feedstock specification. I need 100% cotton, and I can accept up to 2% elastic, but not five or I'm looking at polyester, I need 100% or I can accept 10% contamination, but I can't accept the last thing, but I can accept elastic, but this and that. So each speed, each specification of each recycler is is different, and they want hundreds of 1000s of tons of that waste. And at the moment, waste is mixed. So your factories are mixing up their waste, and then they pass it on to the waste handler, who then comes along, and they segregate it by touch and by burn. And they're very good at this. They're very good at identifying what's 100% cotton. They're pretty good at identifying as well what is cotton polyester, but not the exact blend. And they're good at identifying other pure synthetics, you know, polyester, because of the flame, burns to different color, and they're good at feeling it like I can't tell as well as they can tell like by just touching a fabric for what the composition is. But however good they are, it's a very manual process, and also you can't get exact compositions just by touching and by burning. So the key thing that we, you all manufacturers need to start doing is thinking about how to improve their waste management practices so that waste is segregated by composition. And this is what we're doing with with interloop. It's saying, Okay, how do we simply, you know, for example, Hoser is slightly different, but if. Taking a typical garment production, and you're talking about cutting waste from the cutting room. It's very simple things of having a bin next to the cutting table so that when the fabric is being cut, it goes straight from the table into the bin, not onto the floor, because then it picks up a lot of dust and other contaminants, which is also problematic when the waste handlers are sorting it, because it creates more dust and respiratory problems and so on. So you have bins by the table, and then when you change a fabric, you close the bin, and that means if you have another bin along the side, which is for your floor sweepings in any other kind of waste that's been generated in the in the in the cutting room, just by this very small change, you result in having really low, contaminated, very clean, segregated textile waste. So if you just label that bag, what it is this is 65% cotton or 10% poly, whatever it is, the composition you've already made such a big contribution to enabling that waste to go to a high value use case. And then, by using a digital tool like ours, like reverse resources, we're able to then understand how much waste is where, and actually make that visible to the recyclers. So a recycler today looking at sourcing, okay, I want to get all this polyester, I want to get all this cotton, but I know it's there, but where is it and how can I access it? We provide that kind of visibility through so this is the thing that needs to start happening now with the industry forward thinking. Manufacturers that we're working with are already working on this, but it's also responsibility of the brands as well to start communicating this out to the to their manufacturers as well, and for this to become a standard practice. Because if, if this isn't a standard practice, and we're focusing very much just on the post industrial waste or pre consumer waste within this answer. If this doesn't become standard practice, then the recycler simply won't get access to the waste that they need, and therefore brands won't be able to produce clothes or farmers with recycled content, and the consumers won't get access to that either. So it's it's like the first thing is, waste management is a probably not very sexy topic, but it's the impact that it has is actually really important, definitely.

Madelaine Thomas
Well, thank you Nim Thank you Fauci. We'll go to some audience questions now, because we've had quite a few, and I know we are, yeah, short on time. So Fauci one for you, and any note written on clothes labels where to return this after use. So you know, are you? Are you at the moment, or do you have plan to put onto your labels where you can return clothing after you, after it's been finished with it? I that.

Fauz ul Azeem
So maybe, I think it's this, this is question about, about the Take Back strategies. Maybe there must be a proper label that that is ensuring that how you need to return this, this garment back. So maybe the answer is no that at this moment, there is no such identification that where you need to return this bag. But definitely there, there is some indication that what, what, actually the composition of this garment is. So either it's a cellulosic or it's a polyester or it's a nylon, what, whatever the composition it contains, and maybe, but I think this specific question is about the more about the Take Back the labeling, or the take back programs. Definitely, these such programs, they are more more related to the brands, how they are strategizing to get those product back and then definitely proceeding for the recycles. So at the at this moment, no, no such information is being provided on the labels. And

Madelaine Thomas
then we'll continue with this question. Can you describe the different stages of the supply chain where traceability is or can be applied, and what methods are being used? And additionally to that, you know, with the with the data that we can get from that what? What is the data?

Nin Castle
Okay, I'll take this purely. Yeah, I'll take this purely from the reverse supply chain, because that's where I work. So I'm not talking about it. Typical traceability platforms go from the fiber into a yarn, into a fabric, into a garment. And there's many different fantastic companies are working on this, trust, trace, debt. Genesis. I mean, there's this, there's a lot out there, as any two there's a lot out there. What we do is this kind of bottom bit of the waste that's generated from either the production of the clothes or the old clothes themselves. What then happens to those to that textile waste. So the types of data that we collect is a if I take the topic of post industrial waste, which is what we're mainly talking about here today, then it's about working with the factories. So we collect how much waste was actually generated at the factory level. So we support the factories in doing this basic segregation practices. So we can even capture that down by composition groups and color if necessary, color groups if necessary, then the so we have volume of waste and location and type of waste. The next stage is when the waste handler then comes to pick up that waste as a shipment. So we have a chain of custody, and the waste handler then receives this shipment, and they say, Yes, I did pick up 10 tons of waste, and one time was this, and two times was that, and half a time was this, and yes, this is this. Was correct. I confirmed that this waste was collected, and we have, again, confirmation of the volume compositions, and now a new location of that. Then the waste handlers who are working with us and a certified bio burst resources, they will also register. Hey, I had, maybe, I had one ton of waste from factory, a I've got, so maybe 100% cotton, I know black, for example, I had one ton here. Two tons was generated another factory, and three tons was generated another factory. I now have six tons of black cotton, and I'm actually going to to to just clean, clean this way. So often the cutting room waste will have come with bits of paper from the lay from the from the lay plans. So they will take that paper out, clean it, or do any kind of pre processing that's necessary for the recyclers. So they may say, now I've prepared this. I now have, I know, 5.8 tons of of waste, so, you know, and then, but you also have this view of like, okay, I've now have a bigger batch, but I know who just saw the source was, and then they send it to the recycler, who, again, receives it and says, Yes, I did receive that 5.8 tons of black cotton. Thank you very much. And now I've recycling it into this recycle product. So this is the, this is the stages in terms of the kind of what we call the reverse supply chain, and we go up to that waste being converted back into a recycled product, and then we look to share that data to a traditional traceability platform back into a new recycled product.

Madelaine Thomas
Thank you, Nin for explaining, and I think we'll just go one last question over to you falls, because, yes, we are short on time. So what is your experience on the openness of members of the Textile Supply Chain in providing the data necessary for building up that chain of custody, or a digital product passport? Is regulation helping? Or what are the catalysts for it to become better? Interesting question?

Fauz ul Azeem
Yeah, I think it's, it's a good question. And when we are talking about the data for the traceability, there are two types of data. One data is the chain of custody in which material is moving from one partner in the supply chain, from one partner to the other. So this movement there are, there are lot, many, maybe certifications as well, that make sure that there is a complete chain of custody when the materials move from one partner to other partner, along with with the mass balance information as well, the second point of traceability is about the data associated with those materials. When we say data, I say it's about the environmental or the social data specifically. So maybe we do have the structures of the first one in which we have to understand that materials is moving throughout the supply chain from partner to partner. We do have such type of certifications that make sure this type of traceability, but the second type of traceability in which we need associated data definitely that that that is lacking hugely, and maybe most of the partners in the supply chain, which are not very much mature, they are a little bit reluctant in two terms. The first thing is that they don't understand the importance of the data, so they feel that that data is not that important to the. All the value is lying in the materials and not the associated impacts. So, so this, this area, I think that that need to work with, with all the supply chain partners. We need to engage them, we need to train them, and we need to explain them that what is the importance of this whole traceability context in terms of material traceability as well as the traceability of the associated data? So the supply chain is is little bit immature in this context, either if we talk about the down supply chain or the upside upstream supply chain in the textiles.

Madelaine Thomas
Thank you Fauci, so we'll close it there. Thank you, Nin and fauz for all your insights and for being with us today, and thank you also to our audience and for all your questions. I do apologize we didn't get around to all of them, but hopefully you can get in touch with us and find out more if you need so thank you again, everybody, and we'll see you next time. Bye.