Ep. 117: Now and the future of Smart Textiles

This transcription has been AI generated and therefore may have some inaccuracies.

Ep. 117: Now and the future of Smart Textiles

In this episode, WTiN has collaborated with the No Ordinary Cloth podcast.

WTiN: Hello and welcome to textile innovation hosted by WTiN My name is Abi, and I'm the Features Editor and your podcast host. Each month, we will be joined by a special guest to join me and my colleagues as we deep dive into what's new, what's interesting, and what admissible innovations have hit the market recently, we cover everything on the podcast, from sustainability to start ups and the latest research and development, plus we quiz the experts in the field about their products and ideas across the huge spectrum that is the textile industry. So no matter what your interest is, WTiN, have you covered, and we can connect you to everything you need to know right here from our central hub in the UK. In this special episode, WTiN has collaborated with Mili Tharakan. Millie is a smart textile consultant of the smart textile Alliance. She's also the podcast host of No Ordinary Cloth. Millie invited WTiN Victoria Nickerson onto the No Ordinary Cloth to discuss the smart textile sector. In this episode, they analyze how the sector has grown, changed and advanced, highlighting new opportunities and innovation.

Tharakan: Hi, Victoria. I'm so excited to have you here on the podcast, and I'm really looking forward to a conversation today, because you're someone who has this incredible bird's eye view about all that is happening in the world of textiles, all the exciting thing that's happening, especially in material innovation and smart textiles. And I know I could speak to you for hours, probably because you know so much, you're so knowledgeable. But today I want to pick your brains specifically about smart textiles and this comprehensive smart textile database that you've created. You were leading the smart textile channel at WTI N for several years, and you know this space inside out better than anyone, and I think it was around 2021, that we first met, isn't it, when you reached out to me regarding the smart textile database that you were building, and I was super excited about it. I'm just dying to sort of dive into this and learn more about what this database is and who can access it and what it covers, and also to learn more about the recent report that you produced on the state of smart textile industry. You know what? I've always thought you've had the most fun job in the world, because you you know, you get to talk to all these incredible companies around the world, and, you know, who is sort of shaping the industry, and where we're heading in the future the next 510, 15 years look like. So there's lots to discuss with you. So let's get started and learn more about smart textiles from your point of view. Firstly, just to make sure all our listeners are on the same page, could you tell us a bit about the world textile information network that we refer to as WTiNn what services does it offer, and who is it for, and what are the areas that are covered by WTiN.

Nickerson: Yes, I really thank you for the lovely introduction there. WTiN, we provide specialist insight and data driven intelligence for businesses across the textiles and power value chain. This hopefully sort of enables them to make better decisions faster and gain that kind of competitive advantage in the space. Our primary focus is high growth markets of sort of material innovation, industry digitalization and technical textiles. So w tone kind of works on a subscription basis. So most of it is online. It's digital, and we cover a range of different types of content, whether it's in depth, kind of report to complete profiles. We also have our own podcast, and we put on a few conferences each year. We can also deliver sort of consultation projects as well for the industry.

Tharakan: Yeah, you really go in depth and quite wide across the whole industry, right? Who is this aimed at the platform itself? Who are the people subscribing to the platform?

Nickerson: It's we've got a variety of subscribers. To be honest, it kind of expands the width of the Texas apparel value chain. We have a lot of big name brands that subscribe to us. We have a lot of academic institutions as well, because obviously we cover quite a lot of their work. But vice versa, they're seeing stuff that's happening in the industry. On the commercial side of things, we have manufacturers as well suppliers. It's a really kind of broad spectrum, I guess the people that use WTiN.

Tharakan: Yeah, absolutely. And anyone who wants to sort of stay on top of what is happening in the industry, I would highly recommend subscribing to WTiN, but coming back to you now, Victoria, you joined as a junior material innovation analyst, and now you are the material innovation lead, and you've been there for over five years now. So tell us a bit more about your role. What do you do? What is a day in the life of Victoria like.

Nickerson: So material innovation lead covers a range of things. I'd say, as you know, we're talking about today, my primary kind of market is smart textiles. So I focus on reporting on innovations in. In that sector, whether they're sort of new technologies coming out, to what brands are doing, how they're kind of employing this new materials tech. We also cover other areas, so I'm primarily in the smart sort of side of things, but also focusing on protective textiles, so a lot of outdoor wear, as well as writing about the sportswear industry. So it's a big kind of range of roles, but most of the year covering innovations in those spaces.

Tharakan: You do a lot of research analysis, trend forecasts, and I guess you're also sort of like a textile journalist, isn't it?

Nickerson: Sort of writing up about because we get to do a lot of interviews and Q and A's with a lot of specialists in the area, which is obviously a great way to find out new things going on.

Tharakan: Now, coming to my favorite topic, and the one that you specialize in, in smart textiles. So for our listeners again, Victoria, could you just introduce smart textiles, or electronic textiles, e textiles? There's so many terminologies that are used. Could you introduce what it is briefly for us?

Nickerson: Yeah. So as you sort of said, smart textiles. I think depending on you who you are, it could have a range of different definitions, but the one we sort of use at WTN is that we think smart textiles are materials that have the ability to interact with their user or the environment. So they're always able to sense stimuli from the environment and react to it, so censoring and act rating can happen, you know, either at the same time or automatically or more elaborately, through a circuit. And some smart textiles in those more advanced categories, they might be able to process data or adaptive behavior to it, and that could be made possible by sort of integrating processing units within the product. So I guess, based on this definition, we'd say at least two components need to be present in a textile structure to make it sort of smart. So for us, that's either sort of a sensor, an actuator, and I also have a conductor to sort of transmit data and those kind of signals.

Tharakan: So this is a field where we bring together textiles, electronics and computing, isn't it? All of that kind of come together to create these kinds of smart textiles. And WTiN has been tracking smart textiles for a long while. Now, a few years ago, you've decided to put together a database for smart textiles, and we had a lot of discussions around this. I was so thrilled about this, because it was so important to bring this database together, one place where people can access information, because smart textile has unfortunately been a very fragmented industry. Supply chains, very fragmented, and what you were doing was just what we needed. Could you tell us a bit about this database and why you created it, and what has been the value that has given people?

Nickerson: Yeah, so I think, as you've said, being in smart tech sales for last few years, you can see that it is quite a separate industry. There's very distinct parts to it. We're sort of talking electronics and we're talking textiles, I think from having done a lot of research in it, talked to both sides of the field, whether it's academics, people in the brand space, we sort of saw there's this kind of gap in the market of having that area where people could connect to either side that they needed. So whether it's, you know, a brand, finding a technology provider, whether it's a technology provider, finding someone who wanted to integrate that in their products. And so I kind of wanted to create an ecosystem, or kind of a place where people could come and find what they're looking for, which was, I guess, the basis for the smart tech sales database. We've got a list of different suppliers in the market, so that goes through a huge variety of products, whether you're looking for, you know, conductive yarns, fibers, fabrics, to inks, coatings, wires, we cover quite a broad range of product types. And again, we sort of tell you what applications they could be used for, whether it's heated textile, sensors, things like that, and the unused market. So whether you want to use it for a health application, sportswear, everything like that. Another aspect that kind of came out whilst researching this was, I guess, not only do you need the supply side of things, the electronic components, but a lot of businesses also have kind of trouble developing the actual product, because I think that can be really challenging. So we've also added a section, which we've called integrators. So those companies that can take you through from the r, d side of things, prototyping all the way to developing a commercially viable kind of product, which I think obviously is a great thing to have in the space at the moment.

Tharakan: Absolutely, I mean, like you said, I don't know anyone else has kind of compiled something like this together, and it is so valuable. So you cover companies around the around the world, don't you in that database? So anyone who's involved in creating components or any parts of that supply chain for smart Textiles is on that list. Could you highlight a few examples of companies that are working in smart textiles as part of this database?

Nickerson: One of them that I found really interesting, and we've sort of done interviews that with them prior to establishing database. So they're called next styles, and they're based in the US, and they sort of created these thread-based sensors. And as I've been developing we've sort of been watching them grow as a company, and one of the products they've been working on is sort of am arms leave that can monitor, you know, you. Healthier performance, things like that. And they've actually collaborated with a organization called top tier baseball. It's a travel organization based in the US. I think they have about 5000 athletes that part of this organization. So they developed this arm sleeve in collaboration with them, and it's essentially being used in some of the training programs. And it's helping not only the athletes, also the coaches, to monitor their throwing techniques, improve their performance, and also developing training programs. Think alongside their arm sleeve, they've also developed an AI tool, so that's like an app where you can sort of see these metrics in real time and gather data, sort of analyze those aspects.

Tharakan: And so this, are they a material company or a product company or both?

Nickerson: I think this is, this is where there's a little bit of overlapping in the database as well. Because I think we have companies like next styles where we've, we've kind of categorized them as both, because they can offer these sensors if you want to use them elsewhere, but they also offer this kind of process where they'd help develop an actual product for you as well. So it's kind of in collaboration.

Tharakan: And would you have an example of an integrator as well?

Nickerson: Yeah, I think probably quite a well known one, actually, but climate, we put as an integrator. So they started little while back, and they developed sort of intelligent heating technology. And I think one of the collaborations I really enjoyed recently is with Carhartt. So they've created a intelligently heated thermal vest and that so essentially, I think it's more for the workforce kind of PPE uses. And so when you wear it, it can basically automatically adjust to your body temperature as well as the activities you're performing. So automatically, you know, turn off, turn up, turn down, to adjust to the needs of the user. And I thought that was quite exciting, I think not only for the development itself, but I got to talk to the head of Global Product R and D at Carhart, and I think she was sort of mentioning a few of the challenges that came with this space, which I guess is why you sort of do need these integrators. Because coming from a background where you haven't really produced too many smart products, you've got things coming into play, like the logistics, regulations, compliance, standards, everything like that. And I think they were saying it was, you know, quite an adjustment getting used to and researching these topics for the first time, trying to find out how you get scripts with them.

Tharakan: I guess Textile and Fashion Brands, it's, it's a, it's a shift in their thinking when they start integrating electronics into it, isn't it? It's a whole other world that they need to try and navigate. And so you definitely need some of these integrators who can help them develop these products. And heating is one of the areas that have really got traction in the industry. In the smart textile solutions have really solved a problem, I would say.

Nickerson: I mean, I guess with heated textiles, it's a very mature market this kind of technology. It's been around for decades. It's it's not old, but I guess the way we're integrating it into products is newer. It's more advanced, so everything like that. So they kind of already had a well established market and applications to that kind of technology, which is why we're seeing that as one of the front runners, I guess, for smart textiles and how people are using it, which is quite interesting, especially when you consider ones like climate and how it's gone a lot more intelligent, a lot more reactive, compared to, you know, just turning on a heater blanket.

Tharakan: While putting this database together. I'm sure you spoke to a lot of companies. What are some of the learnings that you had in from those conversations. What has been hard for them in trying to get the word out about the solutions that they have?

Nickerson: I think it's probably knowledge and education about smart textiles and what they can do and how you can actually implement them in your products. I think sometimes when you say it again, it can be quite a confusing space. You kind of might see it as more electronics. It's very high tech, but I think maybe just Yeah, telling people the way these can be used, how they can benefit certain markets, especially when we think of, you know, healthcare and being able to remotely monitor patients with it, or in sportswear, when we have, you know, I guess more professional athletes using it, it's helping them to track performance metrics and improve that. It's helping to reduce, you know, injury in those ways. So I think it's just getting the word out there of how these products can actually be used and how they can have value in your business.

Tharakan: I mean, gosh, I almost feel exhausted, because for like, 20 years, I feel like we've been trying to educate people about this field. And still, there is so much more work to be done, but I think times are changing. I definitely see that there's a lot more openness, especially with flexible and printed electronics becoming just filtering through the market and being adopted. That in the form of textiles, just seems like a next step that people are much more open to exploring in the database, I'm curious to understand the companies who've been developing these solutions. Do they come more from a textile background, or is it being more developed within the electronics industry?

Nickerson: I'd say the majority are more from the electronics side of things. I think when you're developing those kind of components. Components a lot, when you kind of look on the websites or talk to them, a lot of them have been, you know, used elsewhere to start with, whether it's in, you know, automotive, aviation, things like that. And I think it's only as you've seen smart textiles as an emerging sector that I think these kind of companies are realizing where their components could also be used. So whether it is, as we sort of said with sensors or heated textiles, things like that. I think it's definitely more from, yeah, the electronic space, but it's kind of a growing, growing number of companies are from textiles based areas.

Tharakan: Yeah, that's encouraging to hear. I know heating is the area that's got a lot of traction. But what are some of the other trends that you see in the smart textile industry?

Nickerson: I think a growing trend I'm seeing that's not very commercialized at the moment. I think there's still a lot of work to do to get it to that kind of space. I guess I'm really enjoying seeing stuff to do with self powered smart textiles. I think whether it's through, you know, harnessing the movement of your body, harness the energy from the sun or from heat, things like that, I think that's a really exciting technology, and could really help to commercialize on these products in future. Because I guess when you're thinking about the components that are including smart textiles, you kind of have potentially bulky circuitry, bulky, bulky batteries, things like that. I think having something that is self powered, it might encourage more adoption of this kind of technology, because it's not you're not relying on, yeah, charging things up, you can just get, get on it, wear your jacket in the morning, and you know it's going. It's going to work.

Tharakan: We talked about the smart Excel industry supply chain being quite fragmented. When you put the this database together. Were there some gaps that you saw in the supply chain? What are sort of the missing links where there is still need for solutions to be built, which can sort of iron out this industry a bit more.

Nickerson: I'm just thinking the main gaps I'm seeing at the moment is more to do with the investment as well. I was just trying to think of what large supply chain challenges there are. I think it's more about finding the companies who create the actual products, then maybe the supply chain itself. I think it's knowing who's out there to create a specific component that can be like, meet your needs, and that's what I'm seeing mostly.

 Tharakan: You talked about investment. Do you want to expand on that a little bit?

Nickerson: Yeah, I think we're seeing that in a way across the board with the textiles and power industry, because you can see it with emerging new materials, whether you know, bio based, recycled solutions, that kind of thing, as well with smart textiles. I think investment is something that the community really needs, I think, to help these kind of startups really scale and have a fully commercialized solution, we need more companies getting into the space, you know, whether it's some of these brands connecting with, you know, academics, or these smaller companies who are producing these components, I think It's really just having more collaboration and trying to get that investment into the community to help these solutions really scale.

Tharakan: Can you sort of highlight which industries are driving some of the developments in smart textiles?

Nickerson: I think at the moment, a lot of the investment is more in healthcare. I think you're seeing a lot more solutions there. Because I think instead of sort of being a niche kind of market, there's a lot more space for developing, you know, these solutions that can monitor you remotely for your healthcare, especially in the wake of COVID, I think that's become a lot bigger priority in the same space. I guess sportswear really picked off in that kind of 2019, to 2021, because people were looking for those, you know, fitness trackers that they could do their workouts remotely. Because obviously, if we can go into gyms, people want to those kind of products. So I think you're getting a lot of investment there. But I think maybe now, especially for sports, it's probably more for professional athletes. Because another challenge of smart Textiles is they're not cheap to make, so I think they're not necessarily widely available to the mass consumer market yet. So I think you're going to see it in those spaces where there is a very niche need for it. So professional athletes, another area where I'd say a lot of investments coming in, especially in North America, is for the kind of military and defense market. We're seeing a lot more activity going on in that space over there.

Tharakan: What does the current research landscape look like in smart textiles?

Nickerson:  We're seeing a lot into sensors as well. So again, that is used across a wide variety of sectors. So you know, again, your heart rate, your blood pressure, monitoring, all those things with athletes. And I think it's producing these in a way that can be more effectively integrated into clothing. So whether it's just having like a certain conductive yarn, whether it's made out of wire, conductive polymers, things like that, I think that's quite a big area, basically making these a lot more easy to build and easy to use in clothing. I think as well, when I was sort of talking about self powered, smart textiles, there's a lot of academic research going on in that space. Unfortunately, not too much commercialized, but I think maybe that's something to look for in the future. Another one that's quite interesting. I think we could be a little while off with this, but we're seeing some bio based solutions as well. Because when you think of the smart textiles industry, it's maybe not inherently sustainable when we're combining textiles and electronics. So I think people are looking at ways that. We can start building these products with sustainability in mind?

Tharakan: Yeah, that was my next question. Actually, with sustainability and circularity being key factors that's driving a lot of decision making these days and funding, how is smart textile navigating this challenge, and what are the new developments that are taking place to tackle this.

Nickerson: I think it's difficult with smart textiles, because some of the areas they're being used in, I think you're kind of looking at the solution first in terms of you want to develop a product that functions that you know is delivering these kind of data, these metrics, these results that you need. So I think sometimes the sustainability aspect can be a bit on the back burner, but we do know a few companies are looking at maybe having more inter interoperable kind of solutions. So whether we could take out the electronics from one garment and use them in another to make sure it's not just being used in one area, not reused, whether they have take back programs, so being able to, again, remove the components, recycle the electronics, and recycle the garment separately. I think there are a few different solutions coming about, but it's as the industry is still quite new. It's growing. It's getting established. I think the kind of sustainability component is going to grow as the industry does, definitely.

Tharakan: And I also heard discussions about sort of repair services as well, potentially, mostly for the electronics, if it, if it fails, to be able to switch that in and out. But yeah, bio electronics, for me, I'm that's that's something I'm keeping a close eye on. And there's a lot of research that's been going on in that space, which is just very exciting. If we look at sort of textiles and how the electronics is integrated, usually either it's woven, knit or printed. In these three categories, where do you see the most development happen?

Nickerson: I think the biggest mix we're seeing is probably between knitted solutions. So as I said, where we're having these kind of component trees that can be integrated in that kind of way, that means they're comfortable, they're easy to use. And I think a lot of them may be, you know, wires that are kind of coated with a different thread to make it more comfortable. I think that's when you're seeing the knitted solutions. But then printing, as well has come up with, you know, I think a few different companies are trying that, especially in the sportswear department. I think a lot of them are trying to have those very flat, integrated electronics that can sit tight to your skin, so it be within a compression garment, which I think maybe printing works a little bit more effectively there, but they're probably the biggest areas.

Tharakan: Yeah, you recently wrote a report nano materials, right? Maybe not specifically for smart or E textiles, but nano materials for textiles, for outdoor and sportswear. Can you just share a little bit about that?

Nickerson: Yeah, so I wrote what we call an innovation briefing. So this is a type of article we like to create which kind of covers a academic development, so it's probably within the last year. And we basically try and break that down into telling you, you know, the main outcome was how they achieved it. So the methods they used, the results they got as well from testing, and then the impact we think it could have on the industry. So in this one, I wrote about two different academic examples of people using nano materials for sports and outdoor wear. So nano materials, they're typically materials that 100 nanometers or less, and they can come in different formats, whether that's nano fibers or nano coatings, to kind of impart these more advanced properties into textiles. Some of the materials we cover might carbon nanofibers, carbon nanoparticles, or silica nanoparticles, things like that. And we're seeing them being used a lot more frequently in the sports and outdoor wear. So especially, you know, in equipment, whether you have it in hockey sticks, things like that, you have a lot of carbon based materials in there, especially to improve the durability and the strength of those kind of things. And then when we are sort of talking about it from a sportswear, outdoor web perspective, we're seeing them being used for sort of water repellency, for coatings, or moisture wicking capabilities and things like that. So here I've just come across two examples. Was one of them were researchers looking into sportswear, and they were incorporating conjugated nanomaterials, so using graphene and silver nano nano particles to enhance their functionality and the durability of athletic garments. And they were using a technique or an approach called intelligent sportswear design. So they're trying to focus on, you know, addressing the limitations you might have in some current sportswear, whether it's breathability, moisture management and UV protection. So we've just broken that down and written about where we see this kind of the impact of this kind of work. So we think, you know, it could help enhance the comfort of the wearer, because it's increasing the sweat wicking capabilities of the material. It's helping to protect against UV rays as well. To another area we're seeing emerging quite a lot with some of the sports wearing, outdoor wear. And I think they also said for this that due to the graphene, silver nanoparticles, they also suggest that, because they're they conduct electricity, it could potentially be used as well in smart textiles. So integrating other technology into it, as we talked about sensors, monitoring performance, so it's also. So you're having two different kind of capabilities merging into one with nano materials.

Tharakan: Definitely a space to keep our eyes out on. You also recently published a report on smart textiles. Could you share some of your learnings and insights from this?

Nickerson: Yeah. So that report was basically going through the database, and it was gaining insights into the smart textiles market, as we've discussed, some of the key application areas for these components, for that people are using it in. And then we also spoke to some of the people that were actually involved in the database, some of the companies that we've published about, because we wanted to get their opinion on where they're seeing the market going, key drivers and things like that. So I think some of the interesting ones as well. Was talking about AR, AI, AR and data processing capabilities, so sort of merging, like smart textiles with that kind of technology. So, you know, having it even more interactive. So you have, especially maybe for industry or PPE, kind of where, where you can wear certain sensors on the body, and you can have AR, sort of integrated textiles, where you have more immersive experience, whether that's, you know, for training or safety things like that.

Tharakan: It's interesting you talk about AR and textiles, because that was the product that we were developing well, quite a few years ago now, but eight years ago, yeah, with worlds. So it's nice to see that in the industry, kind of discussing more about the possibilities of AR and and smart textiles and AI as well, and with where that could lead us. Could you highlight some of the conferences or events that that happen which are related to E textiles and smart textiles?

Nickerson: Yeah, so I think one of the ones I've really enjoyed going to is the E textiles conference. So I think that's happening maybe Munich or Brussels this year. So again, very heavily focused purely on smart textiles. They go from academics, what they're kind of doing this space, as well as startups, emerging companies, I think they discuss, whether it's their products, how to get investment in the area where the emerging trends are. There's another one as well. I think it's a new one that maybe just happened this year. It was called the wearable collective. We did a podcast or fireside chat with one of the women who was part of the organization of it. I think that looks like a really interesting space as well for the smart sector. I think in general, if we're looking at materials development and innovation, where we also met earlier this year, the future fabrics Expo. I think that's a really exciting one as well, because you're getting I don't think they had as much smart on display this year. They do have one or two pieces usually. But when we're looking at emerging trends, especially in material space, whether it's bio based, recycled, regenerative things like that, they're a really exciting one to go to.

Tharakan: We talked about this incredible database that you've put together and all these reports. How do people access this? I know people are going to want to read about it, and it's a subscription model that you have. Can you share about how people can sign up for more information?

Nickerson: So you can just go to w i n.com and there you can sign up. And I think, being a registered subscriber, I think get access to five free articles a month. And then it works on a subscription base, where you'll get access to more in depth reports, company intelligence, innovation briefings as well as you can watch some of the fireside chats, which covers a wide variety of topics across the industry. We have our podcasts as well, which I believe is free to listen to. And then we also have, on top of the smart textiles database, which we've discussed, we have one for non wovens, one for digitalization and printing. And we also have a patents hub as well. So I think definitely once you sign up, you'll get access to a wide variety of tools across the website.

Tharakan: I feel like we've kind of got really, really clear picture from you, an overview about the industry and where it's heading. Now let's talk about you a little bit more. Victoria, tell us about yourself. Where were you born?  What was life like as a young girl living in the UK?

Nickerson: I was born in Essex, I guess, always been interested in textiles since I was younger. Did a lot of arts and crafts, especially with my Nan. So as I was, yeah, it was good. I was always interested at school as well. Actually, probably where I first got into smart textiles. I remember sort of doing a project. I mean, it was very basic. It was trying to schools were doing this. It was integrating sort of some form of lighting into this textile. I think it was a skirt I'd created, but that was, yeah, that was secondary school. But as I say, a lot less, lot less advanced than the tech out there today. So I think carried on doing textiles quite a lot of school. Really enjoyed it. Then when I was getting to university, I really wasn't too sure I wanted to do. I wasn't sure if I really wanted to go into the kind of design aspect of things. Yet another area I love history. So I actually went down that route at university. Initially. I did history and history of art again. I really loved it. I think I always tried to stay on that kind of art, textile side of things. I did an internship with pop. Art sector at the university. I think after that, I kind of knew I wanted to get back into the textile side of things. So having a chat with on the tutors at Leeds University, I think he was sort of showing me around department. He could see I was really excited about the stuff they were creating and everything going on. And he kind of said, You know what, why aren't you doing this? I think that was kind of the propeller to apply for a Master's at Leeds. And it was, again, less based on maybe physically making Textiles is a lot more heavy on the technology and design aspects, which I found really interesting. I think one of the things you wouldn't think about when the modules I covered was sort of textiles in medicine as well, and all the things kind of you learned there, I think it gave me a really exciting overview of you have it from medical perspective. Then we also looked in sustainability, digital printing, how color works. It was a really exciting and broad spectrum of topics. So I think coming out of that, I know I want to stay in the research side of textiles, because for me, that was where you get to see all these innovations and things coming up on the market, and it was really exciting, and that that's what, what brought me to WTiN.

Tharakan: Tell us about your favorite band when you were a teenager.

Nickerson: Band, yes, yeah. Confession, the first concert that you went to, it's going to be embarrassing. Now, I think it was my parents. We went to a Jack Johnson concert, and me my mom, weren't actually very aware of who he was, so when the warm up act came on, we thought that was Jackson cheering on. How old were you there? I think I'm gonna say 11. Maybe I think.

Tharakan: Oh, what fun. But who's your real favorite band, though, from those days?

Nickerson: Oh, I think I remember my first CD was scouting for girls, and actually saw them again at Glastonbury a few years ago, which that was quite bad.

Tharakan: Brilliant. Did you have any role models, teachers or artists, anyone that inspired and encouraged you back then you mentioned about this particular faculty at Leeds. Were there any others that really sort of nudged you along this journey or guided you when you were feeling a bit stuck?

Nickerson: Yeah, I guess probably my two doing a level textiles, probably my two tutors I had there. I think very different, very different personalities. I think they come one came from more of a fine art background, and one was textiles, both kind of encouraged you to kind of explore their creative sides in very different ways. One little bit more scary than the other, yeah. But I think they were really big helps in trying to, you know, improve the way I'm looking at things, the way you respond to things with materials, and just kind of allowing you to be very free with your creativity and things like that. They were, they were great, I think, quite disappointed when I didn't do textiles for a degree, actually.

Tharakan: But I'm sure they'll be proud of you today and where you are. I mean, it always makes me so happy to hear about people who did do textiles at a levels and GCSE, because I don't think a lot of schools offer that these days, as far fewer courses at school level and even at university level, we're sort of seeing fewer and fewer textile courses, which really breaks my heart. But, yeah, great that there are teachers out there who are still sort of holding on and and keeping us probably more exciting what you can do today compared to, obviously, a few years ago, when I was using very, I don't know, basic things, to make stuff. And nowadays there's like such more wealth of technologies out there, like when, when I was thinking of, you know, having made that smart textile piece at a level, I was thinking, you know, you have companies like Lumia today who actually can offer those integrator kits, the starter kits that you could use. So I think getting more exciting, definitely from a younger age, yeah, I mean, I think that's something I'm really passionate about, is to inspire younger people to reimagine textiles. And people tend to think textiles equals fashion, and that's another thing that I'm trying to break down as well, because there's so many other opportunities and possibilities as your career in textiles. And I think, yeah, the more we share stories such as yours, I think, and I hope, the listeners will also kind of reimagine what their careers and future can look like. I think Textiles is really powerful, and it is far more than just being functional. I feel like oftentimes textiles can fulfill not just our senses but also our soul. Is there a piece of textile or clothing that holds very personal meaning for you, that has memories that you've, you know, connected with it, and you'd never let go of that piece of textiles. Is there anything that you could share with us?

Nickerson: I think it's probably a trench coat I got from my Nan, so it used to be hers, and you can see sort of sections of it where she's tried to edit it, she didn't like, you know, something on it, and do stuff like that, but that I've kept for. Quite a while, and I hope to have it for quite a few years to come. Yeah, it's probably one of my favorite garments that I have and will continuously wear. It's, yeah, oh, still. You still use it. I still use it. Yeah. I think she was a very, luckily, she was quite short woman. It fit me in that aspect, and it's a little bit oversized. It's quite a nice, quite a nice, stylish piece.

Tharakan: Lovely. Do you remember what brand it is? I'm just curious that it survived so many years.

Nickerson: It was made well, I think you know what it was, an old M&S brand. Maybe it was St Michael. I don't think they do that anymore. I know a lot of her stuff used to be, yeah, m&s, but great quality.

Tharakan: So do you still have any, any of your hobbies from when you were young, any of the craft work that you used to do, something you enjoy making.

Nickerson: I used, when I was doing textiles for my masters, I did do a pattern course trying to learn how to make trousers, things like that. I think that's something I'd love to pick up again. I think I'd love to help, well, find ways to be able to, you know, edit my own clothes, especially, I always get quite a lot of tailoring done because a lot of things are a bit too long for me. I think I'd love to relearn those kind of skills, because, you know, when you haven't done it for a little while, you're out of practice. I think that's something going forward. I want to focus my time on a little bit more.

Tharakan: Coming back to the world of textiles, you attend a lot of conferences, and you get to meet companies across a broad range of, you know, across the textile field, a lot of new technologies. What was something that you saw recently that is radically different from anything you've seen? And you got very excited, because sometimes you can see a lot of innovation, and you're like, oh yeah, oh yeah. You know, you kind of get a bit saturated with all this new stuff. But what was something that really stopped you in your track, and you're like, Tell me more.

Nickerson: You know, I can't remember the name of it, but I think we spoke about it at a future fabrics Expo. I think it was this piece that was looking at creating textiles that, as well, had that bio based aspect, also looking back to kind of artisanal, kind of heritage culture pieces. I think that was quite cool one. I think it was with a bio luminescent kind of fabric. I know it was supposed to light up for a certain number of hours when you're wearing it. I think it could degrade at end of life. Although that was a really exciting merging of some new, upcoming technology, again, with sort of cultural heritage side of things. So I think they were trying to make garments that looked at that as well and spelled with the design aspects. I think some of the footwear as well was quite exciting on display, because I know been talked about quite a while when, when we're talking about recycling or design for disassembly, but some of the techniques coming out there, whether it's, you know, normal in one thing, or whether we will be assembling our own footwear at some point, so putting the whole shoe together, so then we know we could send it off for recycling end of life. I think they're quite exciting things coming out. Talking about recycling, thinking about circularity during design. What is the sense on the ground from manufacturers who are now really trying to meet these new sustainability regulations and Net Zero targets, circularity regulations from EU, etc. How are they navigating these times, which seem very turbulent, everything is changing. There's a lot of pressure for that change to happen. I think you can see, especially with the bigger brands. I think you can see a lot more investment into using materials that are from recycled sources, organic sources, or whether they're more of these bio based, regenerative things, I think you're seeing a shift from maybe some of the conventional materials that you'd see, polyester, cotton, things like that. And they're definitely trying to look at more sustainable materials and things like that. On the recycling side of things, I think that's probably still a bit difficult in some respects, because although recycling of textiles could be a big sector, I think the infrastructure still needs to grow a little bit more. I think the amount being recycled at the moment is nowhere near what could be happening with it. And as well, trying to reuse those fibers or yarns, whatever they were in more high growth areas, I think there's a lot more work that could be done there, and trying to make the most of the resources that we have already used and could reuse, rather than always focusing on new aspects as well.

Tharakan: I mean, like I said earlier, such an exciting time to be working in this in textiles, because there's so much innovation. There's really quite a lot of disruptive innovation that's happening because we're completely re imagining how we think about textiles, how we make and use and reuse textiles. What are your thoughts on the new skills that are needed in the industry?

Nickerson: I mean, I hear from both companies and reports that there's a big skills gap to sort of, you know, engage in this innovation and really translate that into the real world beyond the labs. What is missing, and how can, how can people equip themselves for these new jobs of the future with sort of textiles, and especially maybe when we look at smart because you are merging those kind of dis. Distinct industries. I think the skills gap is knowing how to kind of combine them. I guess having that middle man that has the background in textiles but also has a certain amount of knowledge in electronics or engineering and knowing how to piece these kind of new products together new materials. So I think moving forward, you're probably going to see textiles having a lot more to do with, yeah, the science side of things, the engineering side of things. And I think you're gonna have to have a more maybe it is cross disciplinary approach. Definitely it won't just be looking at your very you know, your knitting, your weaving. I think it'll be looking at a lot more of these high tech processes as well, knowing how to use a broader spectrum of materials. And I think it'll be a lot more collaborative in the future, which is really exciting actually for designers.

Tharakan: It opens up so many more avenues of innovation product development, which, yeah, that's actually my next question, what are some of the new jobs that are cropping up in the textile industry, which is being driven by these new developments of emerging textile technologies?

Nickerson: I think a lot you're having ones that are focusing on innovation. So yeah, innovation specialist, innovation manager, it's those kind of roles, because they're the ones that are really looking at what's coming out, what's driving the market, and how can these brands, these companies, manufacturers, implement the new technologies, the new materials, into what they're doing. So I think it's very much, as we've sort of mentioned, the people that can have a more holistic approach and look at all different areas and integrate that into textiles, definitely.

Tharakan: And if someone wanted, someone wanted your job to be like, you know, you get to sort of see everything, learn about all the new innovations, write up about it, be a textile journalist, in a way, where would they start? And what are the skills that they need to be building?

Nickerson: I think, I guess, analysis, research skills, I think staying on the forefront of what's what developments are coming out in the industry. And I think with that, it's helpful, as I sort of mentioned, listen to podcasts. I enjoy that quite a lot. It's very easy way to consume information. So whether it's, you know, ones like this podcast, or there's one the textiles ETP do so that, I think that one's called Smarter textiles, smarter world that has, like, loads of snippets of information in WTiN does a podcast as well, which covers broad spectrum of topics. I think that's always an easy way to get into the information and what's emerging in the sectors as well. LinkedIn is also a great source of information. They've got so many groups across different areas that you're interested in. I think a lot of specialists in the sectors do a lot of blog posts as well, which have really interesting thought pieces, or, again, discussing new innovations, new topics, I think, yeah, keeping up to date with that, basically, and keeping you out for what's going on.

Tharakan: On my last episode, I had Madison Maxi from Lumia. She's the CEO and founder of an E textile company who's doing really well, and she left a question for the next guest. So I'm going to have to ask you that question. Question was, what is something interesting that you learned recently?

Nickerson: I think talking to people and talking about the next steps of your career, I think it's maybe even if you're a bit worried about a new transition, or you want to try something new out, I think it's just having, you know, not being too afraid to try something new and really challenge yourself, because I think that's where you see a lot of growth and a lot of new exciting things coming your way. So I think I'd say that that's beautiful.

Tharakan: I really love that. Thank you. Great. So I'd like you to think of a question that you want to leave for the next guest on show, I guess, what's the best piece of advice you've been given and perhaps how that's been used in your career to going forward? Very, very nice. I love that question. And the last question, Victoria, what would be your dream job in 10 years time? Say, what would you want to be doing?

Nickerson: I think being, I'd still love to be in textile space. I think I'd love to be somewhere where you could really help kind of foster that innovation and help these companies grow. Whether it's, I don't know, from helping them find investment, or whether it's being directly involved in the R D process, I think basically somewhere staying in the textile space, somewhere working with innovation, I think either with smart textiles, or I'd love to be in the side of it, where we're looking at more sustainable solutions. Think either one of those is where I'd love to be in 10 years.

Tharakan: Well, you already are sort of at the forefront of all of that. You have so much information about what is going on in the industry. It's such an exciting space to be in. And I'm always looking out for the articles that you post and just how you keep everyone informed. I really like the way you cover topics as well. You just make the E textile industry really accessible to anyone and through the articles that you've done in W. Tin, so I would highly recommend the listeners to kind of catch that. If that's possible, see if you can get a subscription at WTiN, thank you so much, Victoria. It was so lovely to speak with you, and just so inspiring as well, just to hear about all that is happening. I know we kind of only took a little sliver and looked at Smart textiles, but there is also so much happening in the world of textiles and innovation, and it's exciting to see how you're involved in that space, and you how you cover that space and through in depth reports and insights which are really valuable. Actually, I do have one, one more question. So a lot of it is sort of new technologies that are popping up. How do you kind of catch up with it? How do you learn about these new things. For example, if it's AI, how much kind of background then do you kind of dig into AI to understand the industry and then to connect it to textiles?

Nickerson: I think one of my colleagues is probably one of the more specialists in that area of AI and use, but I think it's probably learning the initial concept of what AI is, how it can be applied to textiles, and then going out doing especially when you do interviews with these companies, it completely opened your eyes to the different ways it can be employed in academia as well. I think there's a lot more innovative uses out there. Probably just going out interviewing people and learning a lot more from some of the experts across the fields in the topics.

Tharakan: Yeah. I mean, that's, I guess that's what your job's about, isn't it? You're always learning new things, always as technologies emerge. And this is what I'd encourage everyone to do, is just start talking to people exactly what you said. People are really helpful. People are willing to share about what they're doing. And so talk to people, and just as as Victoria said, you know, allow yourself to just be opened up into this new world. It doesn't have to be scary. It doesn't have to be intimidating. Just having these conversations just makes it so much more accessible. And thank you so much, Victoria for doing that for us in this space, and we look forward to all that you're going to come out with in the near future.

Nickerson: Thank you very much for having me. Thank you.

WTiN: Thank you so much for listening. If you have any questions, you can reach out over x formally, Twitter at WTiN, comment or contact me directly at Abi underscore WTiN. If you are interested in sponsoring an episode of the podcast, please email sales at WTiN.com thank you for listening, and we'll see you next month.